Working with new moms who choose to FF?
We visited some friends who just had a baby. They have been FFing from the beginning. The baby was rooting around, looking to nurse the entire time. Mom kept saying things like "he wants a bottle" and then said (to her baby) "no, we don't do that!" when he turned his head to her breast.
I was seriously in tears on the way home. :( Maybe I'm overemotional about it because of my own problems with supply, but I just couldn't imagine what she and her baby both missed out on.
I am an aspiring PP doula, and I just don't know how I'm going to supress these feelings. I am fine when it's face to face, and honestly I don't have a problem with it for the most part. I understand sometimes it just isn't something the mother is comfortable with. I know I'm going to encounter FFing mothers in my practice. I just have a feeling it's going to eat me alive to think about it when I lay down in bed at night.
How do I shake these feelings and make myself open to FFing by choice, and still promote breastfeeding? How can I say that breast is best, and then turn around and accept that someone chooses not to?
^_^:
To the OP, I think your feelings are totally understandable, and I have felt just the same way when faced with a baby who obviously (to me) wanted and needed to nurse but wasn't being given the opportunity. For me, my feelings were particularly intense in the first few months post-partum...I don't know if it was hormonal, or due to my own intense focus on BFing my DD... I am less emotional about it now, but I still find FFing in most cases (when not absolutely, truly necessary) to be disturbing and sad.
For you as a PP doula, if it's clear that you have to respect your clients feeding choices, I wonder if maybe you could view it as part of your job and over time develop a bit of professional detachment about the issue. Just like a psychotherapist or a doctor might distance herself to some degree so as not to feel depressed and upset every time a client or patient had a relapse, was seriously ill, died, etc. - you might need to be able to detach yourself from certain situations. There are certainly ups and downs to almost any job and in general focusing more on success stories will bring you happiness in life, in my experience. I'm a teacher, and I know that if I dwell on frustrating situations with my students I can get really :gloomy: , but just one great, rewarding experience with a student per day can keep me going!:thumb Good luck!
^_^:
Edited, my post no longer makes sense in context. ;)
Shell_ell, I hope you're able to find the answers you need. :)
^_^:
I've kind of come to the realization of late that approaching mothers is the wrong way to go about lactivism. That's why lactivists have such a bad name in the media- I think we should stop the judgement of other mothers and focus on education and removal of cultural and iatrogenic roadblocks to breastfeeding.
Now, as a doula, you have a major part in that. Make sure that you present breastfeeding as normal, that you're available with proper breastfeeding advice (and you have the number of a real LC close to hand, and know when to call), and that you do your best to make sure that (if only through you) your clients have access to accurate information about breastfeeding.
BUT, it is not your job as a doula to make parenting decisions for your clients. Formula feeding is not abuse. So, how do you live with it? Step back and remind yourself that breastfeeding is part of a woman's choice about what she's going to do with her body. If you're for legal abortion, you can hardly object to ff by choice, you know?
But mostly, focus on helping those mamas and babies as best you can. You don't necessarily know all the reasons why those mamas choose to ff, but you have to find a way to respect them for it.
Anyway, I don't know if any of that was helpful, but some stuff to think about, maybe?
Julia
^_^:
Originally Posted by Shell_Ell
I am fine when it's face to face, and honestly I don't have a problem with it for the most part.
shell ell, just stay in this place when you are with these new mamas. stay in touch with how very vulverable a place it is to be a new mama, and find one thing, no matter how small, that they do for, or with, or in relating to, their child which is perfect and beautiful and full of love. people will make many decisions, good and bad, and some different from what your own heart feels to be best.
these mamas need you to see for them what they are doing right and wonderfully, whatever that thing is, and to show it to them.
if youve given them just that much more faith in themselves and their here, you have given that mama and baby something of far deeper value. and it will bring them that much more in touch with their child's true needs.
the very best to you in pursuing your path with this!....
(moved this over from the closed post....)
^_^:
I read the other version of this thread, and just wanted to add my support. You are entitled to your feelings.
I deal with it by telling myself, that they just don't know any better. Until lactation happens, many of us had no frame of reference. Would I have said to use a bottle in public before babies? I just don't know.
Last week a bartender in a swimsuit told me that we should use bottles in public, she truly didn't understand how much extra work that would be. Since she ff'd her kids, she only sees with those eyes. If making a bottle was okay for her, why does it suck for me? I tried to explain about taking the pump and the baby in orded to manage her feat, but she just didn't get it. I tried to mention supply and demand, and she seemed to think it wasn't important. Our mindset is very different.
(Not hijacking, just giving and example of mindsets.)
^_^:
I have been considering someday going through midwifery school, and my mother asked me the other day, "How would you feel if your patient chose to do something you didn't agree with, like smoke, or circumcise, or formula feed?"
I hadn't even thought of that :duck:
I had kind of assumed that if someone went to the trouble of retaining a midwife, she probably wanted the best for her babies and woud never do any of those things. But my mother (a CBE and RN) told me that her ladies would sometimes retain midwives AND choose to formula feed :dizzy:
I think I would be sick with disappointment. Can you fire a patient for failing to live up to your ideals? :p
^_^:
I had kind of assumed that if someone went to the trouble of retaining a midwife, she probably wanted the best for her babies and woud never do any of those things. When I joined the midwives for the birth of my second son, as part of their agreement to take me as a patient, I signed a contract that i would not smoke, drink, cut down on caffeine during pregnancy, I would attend all prenatal visits, and I would plan on breastfeeding my son. I also had to agree to attend at least one breastfeeding class if I hadn't already breastfed my first.
I asked the midwife about the breastfeeding part and she said that they will not accept patients who do not agree to at least attempt breastfeeding. They also stress that their patients must be willing to seek help if breastfeeding is difficult in the early days. They do a thorough assessment of breastfeeding during their post-partum visits.
That is one way of dealing with differing decisions - to make it clear that breastfeeding is part of the delivery of care. Obviously not an option for everyone nor would be preferable in all cases.
Siobhan
^_^:
Formula feeding is not abuse. I think pushing away a rooting newborn is emotional abuse. It requires a certain coldness of heart which one should not have towards one's own child. To cry at the sight is an entirely appropriate response by the OP. Of course emotional abuse is not illegal - and I don't think it should be made illegal, because our emotional relationships are none of the government's business - but just because something isn't illegal doesn't make it right.
I also think that, technically, FF by choice is a form of physical neglect. Of course the majority of our society do not realize this because information about the vast degree of difference between milk and artificial substitutes has not been publicized. Even if it were understood, I do not know that I would like to see it enforced (we don't send CPS to houses full of potato chips and soda, either); but there is a wide spectrum of possible moral responses between the extremes of "I have no place whatsoever to so much as say a word about what you're doing" and "I'm calling CPS to take your children away."
^_^:
Personally, if I were looking for a doula and one had that clause, and one didn't, I would want to work with the doula with the clause because I'd anticipate that she would be more knowledgeable of and supportive in re: breastfeeding obstacles that I encountered, than the one who lacked the clause. Actually, even though I am a super-adamant exclusive breastfeeder, anti-circer, etc. I would probably avoid a doula who had a clause enforcing such choices. To have somebody "helping" me do something I was going to do anyway would make me feel undermined, co-opted, patronized. I think I would lose my head if something like this meant a doula thought she could approach me during initial BF sessions to offer "tips" etc....if I need help I'll ask for it.
I chased the LC out of my hospital room for this reason. I singlehandedly triumphed over a full gaggle of formula-crazy nurses with too much time on their hands, and along comes this cute little miss two days post-partum to "help" me? Uh-uh, lady, go earn your crunchy points somewhere else.
What it comes down to is that "doula" is the Greek word for "servant" and it is your job to make the mother as comfortable as possible. It does not make a lot of sense to combine a subservient role with an "enforcement of here ideals" role.
^_^:
Lol I found your question about firing patients who don't live up to your ideals VERY funny. I'm chuckling away here at the computer.
More Topical:
I was seriously in tears on the way home. :( Maybe I'm overemotional about it because of my own problems with supply, but I just couldn't imagine what she and her baby both missed out on.
I am an aspiring PP doula, and I just don't know how I'm going to supress these feelings. I am fine when it's face to face, and honestly I don't have a problem with it for the most part. I understand sometimes it just isn't something the mother is comfortable with. I know I'm going to encounter FFing mothers in my practice. I just have a feeling it's going to eat me alive to think about it when I lay down in bed at night.
How do I shake these feelings and make myself open to FFing by choice, and still promote breastfeeding? How can I say that breast is best, and then turn around and accept that someone chooses not to?
^_^:
To the OP, I think your feelings are totally understandable, and I have felt just the same way when faced with a baby who obviously (to me) wanted and needed to nurse but wasn't being given the opportunity. For me, my feelings were particularly intense in the first few months post-partum...I don't know if it was hormonal, or due to my own intense focus on BFing my DD... I am less emotional about it now, but I still find FFing in most cases (when not absolutely, truly necessary) to be disturbing and sad.
For you as a PP doula, if it's clear that you have to respect your clients feeding choices, I wonder if maybe you could view it as part of your job and over time develop a bit of professional detachment about the issue. Just like a psychotherapist or a doctor might distance herself to some degree so as not to feel depressed and upset every time a client or patient had a relapse, was seriously ill, died, etc. - you might need to be able to detach yourself from certain situations. There are certainly ups and downs to almost any job and in general focusing more on success stories will bring you happiness in life, in my experience. I'm a teacher, and I know that if I dwell on frustrating situations with my students I can get really :gloomy: , but just one great, rewarding experience with a student per day can keep me going!:thumb Good luck!
^_^:
Edited, my post no longer makes sense in context. ;)
Shell_ell, I hope you're able to find the answers you need. :)
^_^:
I've kind of come to the realization of late that approaching mothers is the wrong way to go about lactivism. That's why lactivists have such a bad name in the media- I think we should stop the judgement of other mothers and focus on education and removal of cultural and iatrogenic roadblocks to breastfeeding.
Now, as a doula, you have a major part in that. Make sure that you present breastfeeding as normal, that you're available with proper breastfeeding advice (and you have the number of a real LC close to hand, and know when to call), and that you do your best to make sure that (if only through you) your clients have access to accurate information about breastfeeding.
BUT, it is not your job as a doula to make parenting decisions for your clients. Formula feeding is not abuse. So, how do you live with it? Step back and remind yourself that breastfeeding is part of a woman's choice about what she's going to do with her body. If you're for legal abortion, you can hardly object to ff by choice, you know?
But mostly, focus on helping those mamas and babies as best you can. You don't necessarily know all the reasons why those mamas choose to ff, but you have to find a way to respect them for it.
Anyway, I don't know if any of that was helpful, but some stuff to think about, maybe?
Julia
^_^:
Originally Posted by Shell_Ell
I am fine when it's face to face, and honestly I don't have a problem with it for the most part.
shell ell, just stay in this place when you are with these new mamas. stay in touch with how very vulverable a place it is to be a new mama, and find one thing, no matter how small, that they do for, or with, or in relating to, their child which is perfect and beautiful and full of love. people will make many decisions, good and bad, and some different from what your own heart feels to be best.
these mamas need you to see for them what they are doing right and wonderfully, whatever that thing is, and to show it to them.
if youve given them just that much more faith in themselves and their here, you have given that mama and baby something of far deeper value. and it will bring them that much more in touch with their child's true needs.
the very best to you in pursuing your path with this!....
(moved this over from the closed post....)
^_^:
I read the other version of this thread, and just wanted to add my support. You are entitled to your feelings.
I deal with it by telling myself, that they just don't know any better. Until lactation happens, many of us had no frame of reference. Would I have said to use a bottle in public before babies? I just don't know.
Last week a bartender in a swimsuit told me that we should use bottles in public, she truly didn't understand how much extra work that would be. Since she ff'd her kids, she only sees with those eyes. If making a bottle was okay for her, why does it suck for me? I tried to explain about taking the pump and the baby in orded to manage her feat, but she just didn't get it. I tried to mention supply and demand, and she seemed to think it wasn't important. Our mindset is very different.
(Not hijacking, just giving and example of mindsets.)
^_^:
I have been considering someday going through midwifery school, and my mother asked me the other day, "How would you feel if your patient chose to do something you didn't agree with, like smoke, or circumcise, or formula feed?"
I hadn't even thought of that :duck:
I had kind of assumed that if someone went to the trouble of retaining a midwife, she probably wanted the best for her babies and woud never do any of those things. But my mother (a CBE and RN) told me that her ladies would sometimes retain midwives AND choose to formula feed :dizzy:
I think I would be sick with disappointment. Can you fire a patient for failing to live up to your ideals? :p
^_^:
I had kind of assumed that if someone went to the trouble of retaining a midwife, she probably wanted the best for her babies and woud never do any of those things. When I joined the midwives for the birth of my second son, as part of their agreement to take me as a patient, I signed a contract that i would not smoke, drink, cut down on caffeine during pregnancy, I would attend all prenatal visits, and I would plan on breastfeeding my son. I also had to agree to attend at least one breastfeeding class if I hadn't already breastfed my first.
I asked the midwife about the breastfeeding part and she said that they will not accept patients who do not agree to at least attempt breastfeeding. They also stress that their patients must be willing to seek help if breastfeeding is difficult in the early days. They do a thorough assessment of breastfeeding during their post-partum visits.
That is one way of dealing with differing decisions - to make it clear that breastfeeding is part of the delivery of care. Obviously not an option for everyone nor would be preferable in all cases.
Siobhan
^_^:
Formula feeding is not abuse. I think pushing away a rooting newborn is emotional abuse. It requires a certain coldness of heart which one should not have towards one's own child. To cry at the sight is an entirely appropriate response by the OP. Of course emotional abuse is not illegal - and I don't think it should be made illegal, because our emotional relationships are none of the government's business - but just because something isn't illegal doesn't make it right.
I also think that, technically, FF by choice is a form of physical neglect. Of course the majority of our society do not realize this because information about the vast degree of difference between milk and artificial substitutes has not been publicized. Even if it were understood, I do not know that I would like to see it enforced (we don't send CPS to houses full of potato chips and soda, either); but there is a wide spectrum of possible moral responses between the extremes of "I have no place whatsoever to so much as say a word about what you're doing" and "I'm calling CPS to take your children away."
^_^:
Personally, if I were looking for a doula and one had that clause, and one didn't, I would want to work with the doula with the clause because I'd anticipate that she would be more knowledgeable of and supportive in re: breastfeeding obstacles that I encountered, than the one who lacked the clause. Actually, even though I am a super-adamant exclusive breastfeeder, anti-circer, etc. I would probably avoid a doula who had a clause enforcing such choices. To have somebody "helping" me do something I was going to do anyway would make me feel undermined, co-opted, patronized. I think I would lose my head if something like this meant a doula thought she could approach me during initial BF sessions to offer "tips" etc....if I need help I'll ask for it.
I chased the LC out of my hospital room for this reason. I singlehandedly triumphed over a full gaggle of formula-crazy nurses with too much time on their hands, and along comes this cute little miss two days post-partum to "help" me? Uh-uh, lady, go earn your crunchy points somewhere else.
What it comes down to is that "doula" is the Greek word for "servant" and it is your job to make the mother as comfortable as possible. It does not make a lot of sense to combine a subservient role with an "enforcement of here ideals" role.
^_^:
Lol I found your question about firing patients who don't live up to your ideals VERY funny. I'm chuckling away here at the computer.
More Topical: