Another WWYD?
What would you do:
My twin dds are 3 and my friend's twin dss are almost 4. The boys have become what I'd call violent and it appears that this is done for attention. Here's what happened yesterday while I was babysitting one of them:
- all three kids are watching a video and I'm sitting in the room writing in a notebook. Out of the blue, the boy hurls a rubber ball into DD#1's face. They all had their faces toward the tv and he just turns in an instant and hits her. I took him onto my lap to talk about what happened. Before I could say a word, he started saying, "OK, OK," and looking away from me. I asked him how he thought he made DD1 feel by hitting her with the ball. He kept saying, "OK, I won't." This made me think he just always says that when his mom tells him to stop whatever he is dong.
- all three are playing with wooden building blocks. I leave the room for a glass of water and immediately hear DD2 shriek and start crying. I run in and pick her up, asking where it hurts, and he is saying (over the crying), "Where my mom and dad?" I said, "What happened?" and he says, "I DIDN'T!!!" over a couple of times. DD1 tells me that he hit her with a block, a blue block. He starts saying, "Didn't! I won't!"
When my friend came by to get him, she asked how it went. I gave a hand signal for so-so and said we could talk later, not in front of him.
Just so you know, these boys (both of them) are always trying for attention by being unsafe: one held my DD under the water at the pool, she came up screaming; one tried to slam the fingers of our neighbor in the door - actually watched til his fingers were in the door then took a slam at them, missing, thankfully; etc.
During the pool incident (it was the other boy that time) my friend said, "Did you push her down? (doesn't wait for an answer at all) Because we don't touch other people in the pool, okay?" They were both saying, "I didn't. I won't" then too.
I want to talk to my friend about this. I wonder what you would do or say?
CurlyTop
^_^:
I suggest the book Siblings without Rivalry by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. I was having problems with my dd fighting with my bestfriend's child, and these techniques worked great. If the kids are spending tons of time together, it leads to sibling like behavior. I think it would be good for you and your friend to read. It gave me a lot of new ways to respond to fighting that I didn't have before, and it is wonderfully AP.
I'm not sure what you should say to your friend, it is very hard to discuss with someone when their child is being a problem. If you think it is an attention thing, maybe you could suggest to her ways you have found to spend one on one time with each of your dds? You might also want to discuss with her having some rules for when all the children are togther and going over those with the kids everytime you get together, tell all the kids so it doesn't look like you are just fussing at the boys. And if it were me, there would be consqunces (like time outs) for breaking rules- like hitting, but I know not everyone believes in those.
I hope you find a good solution you can all live with!
Peace,
Laura
^_^:
moving this to Gentle Discipline forum, hopefully the mamas there can help you!
All I can think I'd do is protect my kids at all costs, even if that means not playing with those boys, no matter how much I like their Mom. :(
^_^:
My (former) best friend was living with me and my dd with her two dd's. Her oldest is the same age as mine. She (in my opinion) took GD to a detrimental extreme. Her daughter started doing whatever she wanted when I was watching them and I wasn't going for it because it was MY house and I was tired of her breaking MY things. To make matters worse, her dd1 ran outside one day without shoes, so I went and got her and brought her back in. She actually ran right up to mom and told her that I HIT HER! I most certainly did not! She just didn't like the fact that I didn't let her do whatever she wanted. My friend came down and actually had the nerve to ask me if I had in fact hit her daughter. :angry I could have hit her. Instead I just stood there dumbfounded. I explained to her what happened. She never apologized. Fast-forward two months: She writes me a note saying she thinks I am "affecting her daughter's self-eteem, and that I favor my daughter over hers". I was crushed. I never did anything of the sort. I completely understood that it wasn't her dd's fault that she was so spoiled: it was hers. I told her I didn't agree with the way she disciplined, but long story short: She still hadn't paid yet rent so I kicked her out. We haven't talked since.
There is SO much more to the story, too much to type of course. We had been friends for four years; we were pregnant together and my mom DELIVERED her two babes! I did support at the second! I thought it was a good idea for us to do the thing together because at the time we were both single, and she was living at home with dad and being smothered. Mistake. So much for good intentions. I am so bitter still!
So I guess my point is to be very careful how you approach this situation with your friend. But by all means, it is something you need to talk to about with her. I hope you find the right words. My friend didn't. :(
^_^:
I hope you will not be offended by what I say. I think it is important to start by recognizing that your friend is not responsible for how her kids behave. I mean, taking myself as the example here, I know that I am doing my best as a parent but I do not take my dds's behaviour as a parameter to judge my skills as a parent. I also do not judge the parenting skills of other parents by how their kids behave. At times, some kids will become violent, to test what happens if they do. A parent may have a hard time changing this behaviour, it really does not mean it is a bad parent. So, I would approach her by describing what happened. Ask her what she usually does in these cases. Does she feel that what she does is effective? I mean, she may herself be up the walls with the boys' "I didn't. I won't" stupid answers, but not able to find a way out. Then, you can brainstorm together and find a way out. I'd really try to be compassionate - not critical.
^_^:
First let me thank each of you for your advice. I take it all to heart, knowing you deeply wish for a good outcome for me and my friend, and all the kids. Thank you!
I agree that you can't judge a parent by her child's behavior. At least, not incident by incident. Before I had kids I remember thinking, "Gee, I'll bet I know what goes on at their house! (tsk tsk)" when I'd see a kid behaving violently, but know I know better. We never truly know what happens in any household, behind closed doors; and further, just because one kid hits another does NOT mean the parents hit them or each other, or even that they watch Robocop day in and day out, for example.
I especially appreciate the idea of being non-critical when I end up talking to my friend. Like SunRaye's mom's friend, my friend seems to have taken the idea that kids need to be approved and loved unconditionally to mean that all behavior is to be approved unconditionally. However, she has her reasons - for example, she works pt and has very very little support, leaving her exhausted. And there is lots of societal pressure to crack down on boys (or, alternatively, to let them just be "boys will be boys") so it must be hard for her. I love her and want to support her.
I'm going to think this all over and get back to update after we talk.
CurlyTop
^_^:
True, my good friend was trying to "make up" for the neglect she felt in her own childhood. She came from a large family, and has always been somewhat of a blacksheep, which happens to be the main reason I opened my home to her. But in turn, she was a little too lenient with her own children, thinking that all love and know discipline would make them happier adults.... sorry, I'm not trying to make this about my friend but I am seeing the similarities...
Good luck, let us know what happens....
^_^:
I personally would not attempt to care for 4 preschoolers all at once without planned activities and a "structure." In my experience, 90% of misbehavior is a result of boredom and lack of stimulation! "Hmmm. I'm tired of watching TV. Maybe I'll throw a ball in someone's face." This, IMHO, is very logical if you are 4!
I would limit your babysitting/playdate time to 3 hours - max. And I would plan exactly what you will do in that time, have the activities ready to go, and include a "snack time." In fact -- I would plan more than you need so that you have alternative ideas if something in particular is not a hit. If there will be a video, then limit it to 20 minutes and make sure each child has separate "space" to sit in.
I think there is value in unstructured playtime with a friend. I really do. But with FOUR of them -- all close to the same age --- I think you need an agenda! :) You practically have a whole class there!
More Topical:
My twin dds are 3 and my friend's twin dss are almost 4. The boys have become what I'd call violent and it appears that this is done for attention. Here's what happened yesterday while I was babysitting one of them:
- all three kids are watching a video and I'm sitting in the room writing in a notebook. Out of the blue, the boy hurls a rubber ball into DD#1's face. They all had their faces toward the tv and he just turns in an instant and hits her. I took him onto my lap to talk about what happened. Before I could say a word, he started saying, "OK, OK," and looking away from me. I asked him how he thought he made DD1 feel by hitting her with the ball. He kept saying, "OK, I won't." This made me think he just always says that when his mom tells him to stop whatever he is dong.
- all three are playing with wooden building blocks. I leave the room for a glass of water and immediately hear DD2 shriek and start crying. I run in and pick her up, asking where it hurts, and he is saying (over the crying), "Where my mom and dad?" I said, "What happened?" and he says, "I DIDN'T!!!" over a couple of times. DD1 tells me that he hit her with a block, a blue block. He starts saying, "Didn't! I won't!"
When my friend came by to get him, she asked how it went. I gave a hand signal for so-so and said we could talk later, not in front of him.
Just so you know, these boys (both of them) are always trying for attention by being unsafe: one held my DD under the water at the pool, she came up screaming; one tried to slam the fingers of our neighbor in the door - actually watched til his fingers were in the door then took a slam at them, missing, thankfully; etc.
During the pool incident (it was the other boy that time) my friend said, "Did you push her down? (doesn't wait for an answer at all) Because we don't touch other people in the pool, okay?" They were both saying, "I didn't. I won't" then too.
I want to talk to my friend about this. I wonder what you would do or say?
CurlyTop
^_^:
I suggest the book Siblings without Rivalry by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. I was having problems with my dd fighting with my bestfriend's child, and these techniques worked great. If the kids are spending tons of time together, it leads to sibling like behavior. I think it would be good for you and your friend to read. It gave me a lot of new ways to respond to fighting that I didn't have before, and it is wonderfully AP.
I'm not sure what you should say to your friend, it is very hard to discuss with someone when their child is being a problem. If you think it is an attention thing, maybe you could suggest to her ways you have found to spend one on one time with each of your dds? You might also want to discuss with her having some rules for when all the children are togther and going over those with the kids everytime you get together, tell all the kids so it doesn't look like you are just fussing at the boys. And if it were me, there would be consqunces (like time outs) for breaking rules- like hitting, but I know not everyone believes in those.
I hope you find a good solution you can all live with!
Peace,
Laura
^_^:
moving this to Gentle Discipline forum, hopefully the mamas there can help you!
All I can think I'd do is protect my kids at all costs, even if that means not playing with those boys, no matter how much I like their Mom. :(
^_^:
My (former) best friend was living with me and my dd with her two dd's. Her oldest is the same age as mine. She (in my opinion) took GD to a detrimental extreme. Her daughter started doing whatever she wanted when I was watching them and I wasn't going for it because it was MY house and I was tired of her breaking MY things. To make matters worse, her dd1 ran outside one day without shoes, so I went and got her and brought her back in. She actually ran right up to mom and told her that I HIT HER! I most certainly did not! She just didn't like the fact that I didn't let her do whatever she wanted. My friend came down and actually had the nerve to ask me if I had in fact hit her daughter. :angry I could have hit her. Instead I just stood there dumbfounded. I explained to her what happened. She never apologized. Fast-forward two months: She writes me a note saying she thinks I am "affecting her daughter's self-eteem, and that I favor my daughter over hers". I was crushed. I never did anything of the sort. I completely understood that it wasn't her dd's fault that she was so spoiled: it was hers. I told her I didn't agree with the way she disciplined, but long story short: She still hadn't paid yet rent so I kicked her out. We haven't talked since.
There is SO much more to the story, too much to type of course. We had been friends for four years; we were pregnant together and my mom DELIVERED her two babes! I did support at the second! I thought it was a good idea for us to do the thing together because at the time we were both single, and she was living at home with dad and being smothered. Mistake. So much for good intentions. I am so bitter still!
So I guess my point is to be very careful how you approach this situation with your friend. But by all means, it is something you need to talk to about with her. I hope you find the right words. My friend didn't. :(
^_^:
I hope you will not be offended by what I say. I think it is important to start by recognizing that your friend is not responsible for how her kids behave. I mean, taking myself as the example here, I know that I am doing my best as a parent but I do not take my dds's behaviour as a parameter to judge my skills as a parent. I also do not judge the parenting skills of other parents by how their kids behave. At times, some kids will become violent, to test what happens if they do. A parent may have a hard time changing this behaviour, it really does not mean it is a bad parent. So, I would approach her by describing what happened. Ask her what she usually does in these cases. Does she feel that what she does is effective? I mean, she may herself be up the walls with the boys' "I didn't. I won't" stupid answers, but not able to find a way out. Then, you can brainstorm together and find a way out. I'd really try to be compassionate - not critical.
^_^:
First let me thank each of you for your advice. I take it all to heart, knowing you deeply wish for a good outcome for me and my friend, and all the kids. Thank you!
I agree that you can't judge a parent by her child's behavior. At least, not incident by incident. Before I had kids I remember thinking, "Gee, I'll bet I know what goes on at their house! (tsk tsk)" when I'd see a kid behaving violently, but know I know better. We never truly know what happens in any household, behind closed doors; and further, just because one kid hits another does NOT mean the parents hit them or each other, or even that they watch Robocop day in and day out, for example.
I especially appreciate the idea of being non-critical when I end up talking to my friend. Like SunRaye's mom's friend, my friend seems to have taken the idea that kids need to be approved and loved unconditionally to mean that all behavior is to be approved unconditionally. However, she has her reasons - for example, she works pt and has very very little support, leaving her exhausted. And there is lots of societal pressure to crack down on boys (or, alternatively, to let them just be "boys will be boys") so it must be hard for her. I love her and want to support her.
I'm going to think this all over and get back to update after we talk.
CurlyTop
^_^:
True, my good friend was trying to "make up" for the neglect she felt in her own childhood. She came from a large family, and has always been somewhat of a blacksheep, which happens to be the main reason I opened my home to her. But in turn, she was a little too lenient with her own children, thinking that all love and know discipline would make them happier adults.... sorry, I'm not trying to make this about my friend but I am seeing the similarities...
Good luck, let us know what happens....
^_^:
I personally would not attempt to care for 4 preschoolers all at once without planned activities and a "structure." In my experience, 90% of misbehavior is a result of boredom and lack of stimulation! "Hmmm. I'm tired of watching TV. Maybe I'll throw a ball in someone's face." This, IMHO, is very logical if you are 4!
I would limit your babysitting/playdate time to 3 hours - max. And I would plan exactly what you will do in that time, have the activities ready to go, and include a "snack time." In fact -- I would plan more than you need so that you have alternative ideas if something in particular is not a hit. If there will be a video, then limit it to 20 minutes and make sure each child has separate "space" to sit in.
I think there is value in unstructured playtime with a friend. I really do. But with FOUR of them -- all close to the same age --- I think you need an agenda! :) You practically have a whole class there!
More Topical: